Thank you both for friendship post. I was just answering my friend’s (since we were kids) email from Poland. I was happy to hear his support for US in stopping the nuclear nightmare of Islamists in Iran.
I find myself in the interesting situation of supporting Trump's decision on this action against Iran even tho I am not really a Trump fan in general. As far as dealing with the immigration issue over all and the Islamist threat in particular, he gets a gold star in my book. Conversely some folks I know who have been all in with Trump are not happy about this decision. I understand we do not want another war, but I do believe Iran must be stopped now while it is still possible.
There are wheels within wheels here; Mr Trump being only one -- but I think that you've got the bottom line. Until those who are Not Happy have an alternative... I'm a recovering analytical risk guy: Risk is largely misunderstood; it is the product of Adverse Event probability and consequence. I'm a kinda Not Happy, but when the Event is Regime with documented ill-intent having the wherewithal to execute, the probability needed to be lower than it was yesterday.
Helpful analysis. Thanks. If I understand you correctly, I think many folks forget to fully factor in the Adverse Event probability along with the consequence. Maybe because we like to think we can control situations completely through our own actions, Ie consequences. And./or our social default mechanism is to believe that unreasonable people will somehow become reasonable if we tolerate or placate them enough. As you say, wheels within wheels and the US has certainly been complicit in this mess, but the bottom line is we cannot let suicidal jihadists who hate us and who make no secret of their wish to destroy the west, have their way with nuclear weapons. I guess I am after all my grandfather's granddaughter, in that no matter how much 'guilt' the US bears in this situation and how much we may want to peacefully resolve things, you do not let a dangerous enemy gain ground if you can possibly prevent it. The jihadists have been brilliant at gaining the high ground of public opinion. We cannot afford to let them make any further gains weapon wise. I mean maybe the pro Hamas folks who hate Israel and America would be happy to stand there and let Iran blow us up, but I'm certainly not.
Exactly. Fire risk for an anvil factory not exactly the same as fire risk for a fireworks factory. And when you consider the human factors, you're WAY beyond that which is usefully subject to analysis.
This is why Trump handed Iran it's own ass on a silver platter. All of the bullshit talking and hopeful deal making allowed an unreasonable Iran to achieve 60% uranium enrichment for the intended purpose of creating a nuclear warhead.
Exactly right, RMW. It’s understandable that many people are making this equivalent to Iraq and WMDs. That’s the most recent experience.
But the relevant historical equivalent is a country led by someone who clearly told the world what his intentions were. The world didn’t believe this group could be serious, because their ideas were just too crazy. Surely they didn’t really mean what it sounded like. We can negotiate with them rationally, and thus avoid any problem.
Iraq is not really comparable, although some are trying to pretend it is. I remember watching Colin Powell trying to convince everyone that Iraq had WMDs. I was *willing* to be convinced, but I was *not* convinced, so I was not surprised that other countries' leaders were not.
In the case of the Iranian theocratic regime, there is no circumstance under which this unreasonable party will become reasonable by placating it. This was Obama’s mistake. Anyone who knew the Middle East understood this. He was clearly uniformed or chose not to listen.
I agree. For sure it seems Obama was in love with the idea of reforming the islamists. He was confused about his own identity imo and that made him vunerable to the fanatics. I see that problem with much of the radical left, they simply do not know who they are and so they change identities like they change their clothes ( and hairstyles).
Yes, my way of looking at this is a little different, driven by personal experiences. Those on the left tend to have a weak self esteem. A lack of inane confidence, which in my observation makes them unstable in threatening circumstances, forcing them to lash out. I’m not a psychologist, but it seems to me that this group needs some therapy to address their demons. To provide contrast: certainly people with a ton of self worth don’t act this way.
While I understand and have some empathy with the people who don't want us to get involved in another war (I'm anti-war myself), I think we have no choice at this point when it comes to Iran. Israel came to the conclusion that they could not wait any longer to put a stop to Iran's nuclear plans, so in a sense Israel has forced the timing on us. But it is *necessary* to put a stop to this.
For Israel, this is existential. If Iran got a nuke, they would drop it on Israel. They've SAID this. And all of Israel's Arabic neighbors are primarily Sunni Muslims--the Iranian Shi'ites' enemies. The only thing Iran would have to fear is a retaliatory attack by the West. And the Mullahs have their own safe bunkers, and little reason to love their own populace enough to not be willing to sacrifice them as 'martyrs.' And the West has recently shown itself to be weak enough that the Mullahs have little reason to think that the West would dare to go so far as *nuclear* retaliation.
What a lovely gift of an essay! I am so glad you decided to post it Timothy. So many wonderful and tragic moments wrapped up together in this life and as you say, having dear friends to share these with is essential. I am sorry to hear of the death of your beautiful daughter and so glad to hear of the precious gift of life of another.
This is quite touching, since it seems -- or so the narrative goes -- that men are often lacking that kind of friendship these days. It's especially moving that both of you were there for one another in extremely tragic circumstances -- on the other end of the line. Given the stats on males and loneliness, I wonder how many men are so lucky. Or women for that matter, given the political divide. On that note, it would seem that the Progressives who cut and run at the slightest provocation seem to have lost the memo on friendship and survival.
I just returned from a visit to Chicago, where I saw two of my oldest friends -- both men. One of them lost his best friend due to his wife's meddling. I was there for him after that. He nearly died of liver disease; it was great to see him healthier than ever, having beat the odds. The other friend -- I was there for him when his partner died of AIDS years ago -- among many other travails. Then I went camping with an old friend since high school. She and I can say whatever we want to each other. The laughter is beyond precious. I'm still laughing.
You stated it well. Those who run at the slightest provocation do indeed seem to have lost the memo on friendship and survival! As times get tougher, I find I can actually be a grateful that so many fair weather friends dropped away during Covid and I can invest more fully in those who remain steadfast and true. Condolences on the passing of your dear cat friend.
Me too Casey. Introvert that I am. I love people and enjoy them, but then I have to go home and rest, LOL. And I don't have the "gift of gab" that extroverts have and on which they thrive.
That's how it is for us introverts. Being a Gemini, I can be very gregarious in the right company. And I am always likely to be the one who speaks up. But it drains me, rather than filling me up, as it does extroverts. Gotta go home and rest.
It depends on the crowd. There only two crowds that I do not feel lonely in, I can walk up to anyone and say hi, how’s it going ? Those two crowds are (1) at a Grateful Dead / Dead & Co concert, and (2) at a home Penn State football game. It’s an amazing thing. In all others, I feel lonely.
Y'know, a year or so ago I went to a banquet for supporters of a large steam locomotive building project. How could there be a more affinity-laden group? Still odd man out. Guess that sports and the Grateful Dead are more powerful than engineering. Or that engineers are different -- but I knew that.
Thank you for this post. I am rebuilding my community and friends circle after losing them in the hurricanes last year. And my only family member isn’t speaking to me because of, you know, politics. It isn’t easy but it’s a struggle worth having. Have a peaceful Sunday.
Friendships are the color to our lives. But like beautiful, summer flowers, they do require water and attention. I have been too often remiss in tending to mine; only to be reminded again and again how precious they are. Just rekindled with my best friend from childhood. And have been remiss in keeping up with the wonderful author of today's trenchant offering. Tim's wit, wisdom and humanity shine through; missing only his smile and laughter that must be appreciated in person.
The quality of Friendship is not strained; it falleth as a gentle rain from heaven... or it doesn't. But it is also that mythical orchid that does what it does with or without... I want to say care, but that's not quite right. I've always had very few but very close friends. But a semi-nomadic existence. And mild what-used-to-be-called Asperger's, which I did not recognize until a few years ago. On the one hand, I feel mild envy for adults with childhood friends, on the other, those childhood friends that I recall died young. Kinda Ishmael-adjacent. Your narrative rings true in many ways. I merely suggest that Friendship is a jewel rarer than love. Whether it's more precious or not -- maybe there's an essay there.
You hit on something I have long cogitated over. My husband was born, raised and lived his whole life here. He is 70 and still golfs with guys he went to kindergarden with. It's pretty nifty, but at the same time I have lost count of the number of funerals he has attended in the thirty years we have been together. I don't know how he can stand all that up close and personal loss which is only increasing as time goes by.
If I never loved I never would have cried? (IIRC) Or (as I like to say) there's no silver lining without a cloud. No right way; we can't even claim to have done a risk-reward because there's no real plan other than Life Happens and certainly do-over. But my understanding is that the last man (or woman!) standing can have Problems. Wish that I had an answer -- all the best.
Excellent essay Mr. McKenna and thanks to you and always Ms Celia for offering this platform. The uncanny valley aspect of friendship you discuss reflects the happy/sad, good/bad aspect of of much human society so maybe Chairman Mao was correct in his belief that society always contains inherent contradictions necessary to its advancement (for example between the social support system friendship offers on a personal or tribal level level yet how many larger human institutions such as organized religion and nation states seem to have “missed the memo”in applying that lesson to our shared humanity. Your personal details were sad yet ultimately life affirming. I released how lucky I was to have good college friends this week as my cell phone and IPad both failed within 24 hours, causing communication breakdowns taking four days to fix, forcing an extended stay in Austin. Yet my friends were there to help and pick me up in different ways, ending with the rhythm guitarist in my 80s band surprising me with a guest list spot at Okkerville’s River’s gig, reminding me everyone needs somebody to lean on, which your words today eloquently, emotionally and very effectively elucidate..
Lovely essay. I’m still friends with 8 gal pals from high school even though we’re all scattered across the country now. I have one biological sister and brother and three step sisters. I keep in touch with one step sister. Why is it I’m closer to my friends than my own family? I tried with my sister for years, finally gave up when she moved to CO.
It's a mystery for sure. I have heard it said we choose our friends but not our family and that too much familiarity breeds contempt. However if family turns away from us it seems to even hit deeper for some reason than if friends do, even if we were not that close to begin with. It must be a cellular thing in that our entire being is formed in conjunction with our families and when they cut us out or we cut them off it really is like cutting off a piece of our own bodies. I have also thought that our families magnify and reflect the good, the bad and the ugly within ourselves in a deeper, more viseral way than our friends do and sometimes that reflection/magnification becomes unbearable and so we and they turn away. Who knows for sure, but at the end of the day somehow we move on.
I'm sorry, that's REALLY hard. I had one daughter in Seattle while another was in NYC and I was in the Midwest. Reality hit them when they wanted families and a home, it was not realistic in either of those places so they moved back to WI (well, Duluth is close enough.) Something about having babies made them want to be closer to family, at least with my kids.
Good for you. Thanks for the sentiment. Both daughters live in the Bay Area and we live in NJ. When some obligations and responsibilities are resolved here in NJ, we can move closer. I told my wife we should live in Nevada because of the Cali tax bite. That did not go over well. Who knows. Keep turning those peddles over.
We moved back to CA many years ago. It has changed dramatically and not for the better. One of My daughters moved to NY for 6 years, then wanted to come back. We welcomed her and helped her get a house. Now both our daughters live 20 min. away. We are blessed.
CA, in many ways has been severely damaged by the democrats, and I fear for our daughter’s future. But it is still a beautiful place to live (especially in northern CA). Even the democrats can't destroy that, although they are trying mightily.
Anything I would have written has already been stated by my JiP friends. That was heartfelt and thought provoking. Not to mention, beautifully written. Thank you Tim and Celia.
I am trying to reply to Casey Jones and Billiamo but can’t (an example of my tech failures) as the leader of Okkkerville River shouted “Free Palestine and F—k Ice”:from the stage in shameless pandering to the Ausitn crowd, who much like Homos for Hamas aren’t exactly clear eyed geopolitical thinkers. I’m gong to start calling Iran “the Islamist Entity” even if some lunatic
liberal whines. The strikes themselves are obviously topics for another day soon,I presume)
Most people don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. As long as you are giving, you're a great friend. When you ask for the same in return, they've got something better to do. Go ask a "great" friend to help you move. I get your disappointment.
I agree with you, Jen, to a point. I have had many friends over the years, in many states. We have been geographically distant, but when contact is made, the miles melt away. I feel that this is because friendship is work (like every relationship). I put time, effort and emotion into my friendships and that is what I get back.
When does one stop putting in the time and effort though? That’s part of my point. If I’m always the one initiating contact and asking to get together, when do you finally give up?
I'll stop giving time and effort when I am dead. That's it, that's when.
Maybe because I am not keeping score.... ie: I called you 3x and you only called me 1x. I stood behind you when you were going through A and you were not available to me when I went through A .
I’m not keeping score. I mean that literally I’m the one reaching out EVERY SINGLE TIME.
For example, after multiple texts, a former coworker, who I thought was a potential friend, and I finally decided on a coffee date. She then proceeds to text me the day before and canceled because she’s not feeling well. In my mind if you were the one who canceled because you were sick it’s up to you to reach back out and reschedule the coffee. That’s been a year and a half ago and I’ve never heard from her again since.
Talk and action. Talking is nice but talking and showing up is best. That's how you know you have a truly reliable friendship.
On a side note, the level of trollish hate and stupidity on Sasha Stone's comment section is stunning. Hyperbole, speculation and general illiteracy...wow!
"On a side note, the level of trollish hate and stupidity on Sasha Stone's comment section is stunning." Isn't that the sad truth. I had to stop reading the comments after awhile. The hyperbole, speculation, and ignorance of so many of the comments are maddening.
Agree but if you are always on the giving side, and never the receiving side, there’s no point. That’s not friendship; it’s either convenience or abuse.
Yeah. Folks do seem to have widely different definitions of friendship. Covid was such a wake up call for me, not just in terms of so called friends turning on me, but I had to starkly face how much more I had been putting into those relationships than they had. I was not very lucky regarding family, but I have been incredibly lucky regarding a few very precious friendships, including my mate. Now those handful of friends are aging and transforming, including my mate and I dread their deaths. So even those blessings have a price.
Oh my goodness! What a wonderful post this morning. For me, it brought up so many memories as I thought about my far-flung friends--the ones who when you see them just pick right up where you left off the last time. The ones who are...there...thick and thin. The ones who are gone, too, as their memories...remain...with us...always.
Thank you for this Tim and Celia. Very impactful indeed. The comments have helped me clarify a short term path to get more connected with distant friends, as I got lazy during COVID. One does not receive from their friends unless one gives. That’s the path.
Thank you both for friendship post. I was just answering my friend’s (since we were kids) email from Poland. I was happy to hear his support for US in stopping the nuclear nightmare of Islamists in Iran.
I find myself in the interesting situation of supporting Trump's decision on this action against Iran even tho I am not really a Trump fan in general. As far as dealing with the immigration issue over all and the Islamist threat in particular, he gets a gold star in my book. Conversely some folks I know who have been all in with Trump are not happy about this decision. I understand we do not want another war, but I do believe Iran must be stopped now while it is still possible.
There are wheels within wheels here; Mr Trump being only one -- but I think that you've got the bottom line. Until those who are Not Happy have an alternative... I'm a recovering analytical risk guy: Risk is largely misunderstood; it is the product of Adverse Event probability and consequence. I'm a kinda Not Happy, but when the Event is Regime with documented ill-intent having the wherewithal to execute, the probability needed to be lower than it was yesterday.
Helpful analysis. Thanks. If I understand you correctly, I think many folks forget to fully factor in the Adverse Event probability along with the consequence. Maybe because we like to think we can control situations completely through our own actions, Ie consequences. And./or our social default mechanism is to believe that unreasonable people will somehow become reasonable if we tolerate or placate them enough. As you say, wheels within wheels and the US has certainly been complicit in this mess, but the bottom line is we cannot let suicidal jihadists who hate us and who make no secret of their wish to destroy the west, have their way with nuclear weapons. I guess I am after all my grandfather's granddaughter, in that no matter how much 'guilt' the US bears in this situation and how much we may want to peacefully resolve things, you do not let a dangerous enemy gain ground if you can possibly prevent it. The jihadists have been brilliant at gaining the high ground of public opinion. We cannot afford to let them make any further gains weapon wise. I mean maybe the pro Hamas folks who hate Israel and America would be happy to stand there and let Iran blow us up, but I'm certainly not.
Exactly. Fire risk for an anvil factory not exactly the same as fire risk for a fireworks factory. And when you consider the human factors, you're WAY beyond that which is usefully subject to analysis.
"To believe that unreasonable people will somehow become reasonable if we tolerate or placate them enough."
Wish in one hand shit in the other...
🎯🎯
This is why Trump handed Iran it's own ass on a silver platter. All of the bullshit talking and hopeful deal making allowed an unreasonable Iran to achieve 60% uranium enrichment for the intended purpose of creating a nuclear warhead.
Exactly.
My dad always said that to us kids growing up, and every once in a while, the wish hand would fill before the shit hand.
Lots of wishing.
Exactly right, RMW. It’s understandable that many people are making this equivalent to Iraq and WMDs. That’s the most recent experience.
But the relevant historical equivalent is a country led by someone who clearly told the world what his intentions were. The world didn’t believe this group could be serious, because their ideas were just too crazy. Surely they didn’t really mean what it sounded like. We can negotiate with them rationally, and thus avoid any problem.
Turns out the world was wrong in that assessment.
Much better historical equivalent. And there is abundant proof that Iran was going nuclear, unlike the WMD thing in Iraq.
Iraq is not really comparable, although some are trying to pretend it is. I remember watching Colin Powell trying to convince everyone that Iraq had WMDs. I was *willing* to be convinced, but I was *not* convinced, so I was not surprised that other countries' leaders were not.
In the case of the Iranian theocratic regime, there is no circumstance under which this unreasonable party will become reasonable by placating it. This was Obama’s mistake. Anyone who knew the Middle East understood this. He was clearly uniformed or chose not to listen.
I agree. For sure it seems Obama was in love with the idea of reforming the islamists. He was confused about his own identity imo and that made him vunerable to the fanatics. I see that problem with much of the radical left, they simply do not know who they are and so they change identities like they change their clothes ( and hairstyles).
Yes, my way of looking at this is a little different, driven by personal experiences. Those on the left tend to have a weak self esteem. A lack of inane confidence, which in my observation makes them unstable in threatening circumstances, forcing them to lash out. I’m not a psychologist, but it seems to me that this group needs some therapy to address their demons. To provide contrast: certainly people with a ton of self worth don’t act this way.
And colors! Those colors!
Makes good sense.
So now less not happy.
Much obliged sir!
While I understand and have some empathy with the people who don't want us to get involved in another war (I'm anti-war myself), I think we have no choice at this point when it comes to Iran. Israel came to the conclusion that they could not wait any longer to put a stop to Iran's nuclear plans, so in a sense Israel has forced the timing on us. But it is *necessary* to put a stop to this.
For Israel, this is existential. If Iran got a nuke, they would drop it on Israel. They've SAID this. And all of Israel's Arabic neighbors are primarily Sunni Muslims--the Iranian Shi'ites' enemies. The only thing Iran would have to fear is a retaliatory attack by the West. And the Mullahs have their own safe bunkers, and little reason to love their own populace enough to not be willing to sacrifice them as 'martyrs.' And the West has recently shown itself to be weak enough that the Mullahs have little reason to think that the West would dare to go so far as *nuclear* retaliation.
Exactly that.
Perfect thing to read the day after yesterday, when counting our blessings is more important than ever. Thank you.
Fact: without my friends I’d be 40 years dead.
Friends are like flying buttresses- they hold you up while grounding you. Nicely written.
What a lovely gift of an essay! I am so glad you decided to post it Timothy. So many wonderful and tragic moments wrapped up together in this life and as you say, having dear friends to share these with is essential. I am sorry to hear of the death of your beautiful daughter and so glad to hear of the precious gift of life of another.
This is quite touching, since it seems -- or so the narrative goes -- that men are often lacking that kind of friendship these days. It's especially moving that both of you were there for one another in extremely tragic circumstances -- on the other end of the line. Given the stats on males and loneliness, I wonder how many men are so lucky. Or women for that matter, given the political divide. On that note, it would seem that the Progressives who cut and run at the slightest provocation seem to have lost the memo on friendship and survival.
I just returned from a visit to Chicago, where I saw two of my oldest friends -- both men. One of them lost his best friend due to his wife's meddling. I was there for him after that. He nearly died of liver disease; it was great to see him healthier than ever, having beat the odds. The other friend -- I was there for him when his partner died of AIDS years ago -- among many other travails. Then I went camping with an old friend since high school. She and I can say whatever we want to each other. The laughter is beyond precious. I'm still laughing.
On this topic, I wrote an essay about our cat, Arlecchino, who just passed away. He also needed a friend. https://open.substack.com/pub/dogl/p/the-character-arc-of-a-stray-cat?r=eo3qf&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
You stated it well. Those who run at the slightest provocation do indeed seem to have lost the memo on friendship and survival! As times get tougher, I find I can actually be a grateful that so many fair weather friends dropped away during Covid and I can invest more fully in those who remain steadfast and true. Condolences on the passing of your dear cat friend.
I'll go further: Those who treat Friendship lightly have never experienced it.
Or they take a lack of loneliness for granted.
Maybe it's the mild Asperger's but I can be -- generally am! -- lonely in a crowd. Even a nominally friendly one.
Me too.
Me too Casey. Introvert that I am. I love people and enjoy them, but then I have to go home and rest, LOL. And I don't have the "gift of gab" that extroverts have and on which they thrive.
That's how it is for us introverts. Being a Gemini, I can be very gregarious in the right company. And I am always likely to be the one who speaks up. But it drains me, rather than filling me up, as it does extroverts. Gotta go home and rest.
It depends on the crowd. There only two crowds that I do not feel lonely in, I can walk up to anyone and say hi, how’s it going ? Those two crowds are (1) at a Grateful Dead / Dead & Co concert, and (2) at a home Penn State football game. It’s an amazing thing. In all others, I feel lonely.
Y'know, a year or so ago I went to a banquet for supporters of a large steam locomotive building project. How could there be a more affinity-laden group? Still odd man out. Guess that sports and the Grateful Dead are more powerful than engineering. Or that engineers are different -- but I knew that.
Arlie hit the jackpot with you two.
Thank you!
Brought a smile to my face. 🙂
Thank you for this post. I am rebuilding my community and friends circle after losing them in the hurricanes last year. And my only family member isn’t speaking to me because of, you know, politics. It isn’t easy but it’s a struggle worth having. Have a peaceful Sunday.
Friendships are the color to our lives. But like beautiful, summer flowers, they do require water and attention. I have been too often remiss in tending to mine; only to be reminded again and again how precious they are. Just rekindled with my best friend from childhood. And have been remiss in keeping up with the wonderful author of today's trenchant offering. Tim's wit, wisdom and humanity shine through; missing only his smile and laughter that must be appreciated in person.
Such a lovely comment Bruce.
The quality of Friendship is not strained; it falleth as a gentle rain from heaven... or it doesn't. But it is also that mythical orchid that does what it does with or without... I want to say care, but that's not quite right. I've always had very few but very close friends. But a semi-nomadic existence. And mild what-used-to-be-called Asperger's, which I did not recognize until a few years ago. On the one hand, I feel mild envy for adults with childhood friends, on the other, those childhood friends that I recall died young. Kinda Ishmael-adjacent. Your narrative rings true in many ways. I merely suggest that Friendship is a jewel rarer than love. Whether it's more precious or not -- maybe there's an essay there.
You hit on something I have long cogitated over. My husband was born, raised and lived his whole life here. He is 70 and still golfs with guys he went to kindergarden with. It's pretty nifty, but at the same time I have lost count of the number of funerals he has attended in the thirty years we have been together. I don't know how he can stand all that up close and personal loss which is only increasing as time goes by.
If I never loved I never would have cried? (IIRC) Or (as I like to say) there's no silver lining without a cloud. No right way; we can't even claim to have done a risk-reward because there's no real plan other than Life Happens and certainly do-over. But my understanding is that the last man (or woman!) standing can have Problems. Wish that I had an answer -- all the best.
Excellent essay Mr. McKenna and thanks to you and always Ms Celia for offering this platform. The uncanny valley aspect of friendship you discuss reflects the happy/sad, good/bad aspect of of much human society so maybe Chairman Mao was correct in his belief that society always contains inherent contradictions necessary to its advancement (for example between the social support system friendship offers on a personal or tribal level level yet how many larger human institutions such as organized religion and nation states seem to have “missed the memo”in applying that lesson to our shared humanity. Your personal details were sad yet ultimately life affirming. I released how lucky I was to have good college friends this week as my cell phone and IPad both failed within 24 hours, causing communication breakdowns taking four days to fix, forcing an extended stay in Austin. Yet my friends were there to help and pick me up in different ways, ending with the rhythm guitarist in my 80s band surprising me with a guest list spot at Okkerville’s River’s gig, reminding me everyone needs somebody to lean on, which your words today eloquently, emotionally and very effectively elucidate..
As always, PoetKen, beautifully put and with added dimensions and examples. I do so enjoy your posts.
You've been having terrible luck lately, Ken!
Lovely essay. I’m still friends with 8 gal pals from high school even though we’re all scattered across the country now. I have one biological sister and brother and three step sisters. I keep in touch with one step sister. Why is it I’m closer to my friends than my own family? I tried with my sister for years, finally gave up when she moved to CO.
It's a mystery for sure. I have heard it said we choose our friends but not our family and that too much familiarity breeds contempt. However if family turns away from us it seems to even hit deeper for some reason than if friends do, even if we were not that close to begin with. It must be a cellular thing in that our entire being is formed in conjunction with our families and when they cut us out or we cut them off it really is like cutting off a piece of our own bodies. I have also thought that our families magnify and reflect the good, the bad and the ugly within ourselves in a deeper, more viseral way than our friends do and sometimes that reflection/magnification becomes unbearable and so we and they turn away. Who knows for sure, but at the end of the day somehow we move on.
Very interesting.
I’m feeling the same way - “cut off” - recently as my second daughter is now 3,000 miles away on the west coast.
I'm sorry, that's REALLY hard. I had one daughter in Seattle while another was in NYC and I was in the Midwest. Reality hit them when they wanted families and a home, it was not realistic in either of those places so they moved back to WI (well, Duluth is close enough.) Something about having babies made them want to be closer to family, at least with my kids.
Good for you. Thanks for the sentiment. Both daughters live in the Bay Area and we live in NJ. When some obligations and responsibilities are resolved here in NJ, we can move closer. I told my wife we should live in Nevada because of the Cali tax bite. That did not go over well. Who knows. Keep turning those peddles over.
We moved back to CA many years ago. It has changed dramatically and not for the better. One of My daughters moved to NY for 6 years, then wanted to come back. We welcomed her and helped her get a house. Now both our daughters live 20 min. away. We are blessed.
CA, in many ways has been severely damaged by the democrats, and I fear for our daughter’s future. But it is still a beautiful place to live (especially in northern CA). Even the democrats can't destroy that, although they are trying mightily.
You are blessed.
My kids grew up with both sets of grandparents 10 minutes away.
It was great for everyone.
California is beautiful, I agree.
I’m thinking Western Nevada so I can get to the Bay Area easily.
Who knows.
Anything I would have written has already been stated by my JiP friends. That was heartfelt and thought provoking. Not to mention, beautifully written. Thank you Tim and Celia.
I am trying to reply to Casey Jones and Billiamo but can’t (an example of my tech failures) as the leader of Okkkerville River shouted “Free Palestine and F—k Ice”:from the stage in shameless pandering to the Ausitn crowd, who much like Homos for Hamas aren’t exactly clear eyed geopolitical thinkers. I’m gong to start calling Iran “the Islamist Entity” even if some lunatic
liberal whines. The strikes themselves are obviously topics for another day soon,I presume)
I like the Islamist Entity.
Good one.
Yes, there is very little difference between the lunatic left and the insane islamists.
This topic, friendship, is quite painful for me, as I don’t really have any friends and haven’t really ever had friends, as best as I can tell.
I’ve had acquaintances, coworkers, and people I called friends who clearly didn’t feel the same about me, given their complete lack of follow up.
I could write an entire essay myself on this topic and my experience that almost everyone just doesn’t give a damn about me.
Most people don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. As long as you are giving, you're a great friend. When you ask for the same in return, they've got something better to do. Go ask a "great" friend to help you move. I get your disappointment.
I agree with you, Jen, to a point. I have had many friends over the years, in many states. We have been geographically distant, but when contact is made, the miles melt away. I feel that this is because friendship is work (like every relationship). I put time, effort and emotion into my friendships and that is what I get back.
When does one stop putting in the time and effort though? That’s part of my point. If I’m always the one initiating contact and asking to get together, when do you finally give up?
Exactly.
You’ll know, when frustrations reaches the point of exhaustion.
I knew when the stupid facebook alerts had one that he had made a full TDS comment in some context. Explained a lot of unanswered reachings-out.
That will do it.
I'll stop giving time and effort when I am dead. That's it, that's when.
Maybe because I am not keeping score.... ie: I called you 3x and you only called me 1x. I stood behind you when you were going through A and you were not available to me when I went through A .
That mentality will only lead to bad places.
I’m not keeping score. I mean that literally I’m the one reaching out EVERY SINGLE TIME.
For example, after multiple texts, a former coworker, who I thought was a potential friend, and I finally decided on a coffee date. She then proceeds to text me the day before and canceled because she’s not feeling well. In my mind if you were the one who canceled because you were sick it’s up to you to reach back out and reschedule the coffee. That’s been a year and a half ago and I’ve never heard from her again since.
I did not intend to imply that you were keeping score ... I was trying to explain my mindset and strategy for friend making and keeping.
It saddens me that you do not have a close friend and will hope that you find (at least) one.
The 'Busy' Trap
By TIM KREIDER
https://archive.nytimes.com/query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage-940DEED8113AF932A35754C0A9649D8B63.html
I think about this article quite often.
Talk and action. Talking is nice but talking and showing up is best. That's how you know you have a truly reliable friendship.
On a side note, the level of trollish hate and stupidity on Sasha Stone's comment section is stunning. Hyperbole, speculation and general illiteracy...wow!
It looks like HL3 found a "friend" !
Ugh! Lunatic imbecils.
"On a side note, the level of trollish hate and stupidity on Sasha Stone's comment section is stunning." Isn't that the sad truth. I had to stop reading the comments after awhile. The hyperbole, speculation, and ignorance of so many of the comments are maddening.
Totally! Sasha has manged to attract a bizarre bunch of unhinged weirdos.
Yes, one cannot expect something unless one gives.
Agree but if you are always on the giving side, and never the receiving side, there’s no point. That’s not friendship; it’s either convenience or abuse.
I agree 100%.
Yeah. Folks do seem to have widely different definitions of friendship. Covid was such a wake up call for me, not just in terms of so called friends turning on me, but I had to starkly face how much more I had been putting into those relationships than they had. I was not very lucky regarding family, but I have been incredibly lucky regarding a few very precious friendships, including my mate. Now those handful of friends are aging and transforming, including my mate and I dread their deaths. So even those blessings have a price.
Oh my goodness! What a wonderful post this morning. For me, it brought up so many memories as I thought about my far-flung friends--the ones who when you see them just pick right up where you left off the last time. The ones who are...there...thick and thin. The ones who are gone, too, as their memories...remain...with us...always.
Thank you for this Tim and Celia. Very impactful indeed. The comments have helped me clarify a short term path to get more connected with distant friends, as I got lazy during COVID. One does not receive from their friends unless one gives. That’s the path.